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	<title>Comments on: Should You Allow Closed Group Affiliate Brand Bidding?</title>
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	<link>http://www.ppcblog.co.uk/affiliate-advertising/should-you-allow-closed-group-affiliate-brand-bidding/</link>
	<description>A cynical look at Pay Per Click (PPC)</description>
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		<title>By: Southampton bookkeeper and accountant</title>
		<link>http://www.ppcblog.co.uk/affiliate-advertising/should-you-allow-closed-group-affiliate-brand-bidding/comment-page-1/#comment-166135</link>
		<dc:creator>Southampton bookkeeper and accountant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Mar 2010 10:25:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ppcblog.co.uk/?p=308#comment-166135</guid>
		<description>I agree - its a real concern that others will basically be able to hijack my brand for their own purposes

Good post</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree &#8211; its a real concern that others will basically be able to hijack my brand for their own purposes</p>
<p>Good post</p>
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		<title>By: Bingo</title>
		<link>http://www.ppcblog.co.uk/affiliate-advertising/should-you-allow-closed-group-affiliate-brand-bidding/comment-page-1/#comment-119035</link>
		<dc:creator>Bingo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 09:50:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ppcblog.co.uk/?p=308#comment-119035</guid>
		<description>I agree with the above piece. I think under no circumstance affiliate brand bidding will be positive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the above piece. I think under no circumstance affiliate brand bidding will be positive.</p>
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		<title>By: jatiN mahindrA doT coM &#187; Reputation Management for Affiliate Marketing</title>
		<link>http://www.ppcblog.co.uk/affiliate-advertising/should-you-allow-closed-group-affiliate-brand-bidding/comment-page-1/#comment-101905</link>
		<dc:creator>jatiN mahindrA doT coM &#187; Reputation Management for Affiliate Marketing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Mar 2009 14:58:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ppcblog.co.uk/?p=308#comment-101905</guid>
		<description>[...] to know how current affiliates are representing the merchant’s brand. Affiliates become the “face of the brand” for those consumers interacting. However, in many cases, there are very specific limitations to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to know how current affiliates are representing the merchant’s brand. Affiliates become the “face of the brand” for those consumers interacting. However, in many cases, there are very specific limitations to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Picky Boot</title>
		<link>http://www.ppcblog.co.uk/affiliate-advertising/should-you-allow-closed-group-affiliate-brand-bidding/comment-page-1/#comment-90548</link>
		<dc:creator>Picky Boot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 05:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ppcblog.co.uk/?p=308#comment-90548</guid>
		<description>Sometimes we can allow the closed group affiliate for brand bidding. Where the competition is relatively high. Obviously they can reach their targets without seeming to pay a higher cost to do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes we can allow the closed group affiliate for brand bidding. Where the competition is relatively high. Obviously they can reach their targets without seeming to pay a higher cost to do it.</p>
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		<title>By: murfster</title>
		<link>http://www.ppcblog.co.uk/affiliate-advertising/should-you-allow-closed-group-affiliate-brand-bidding/comment-page-1/#comment-90029</link>
		<dc:creator>murfster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 16:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ppcblog.co.uk/?p=308#comment-90029</guid>
		<description>Hi all, 

Further to this, i agree with the principle of brand protection in this instance, as in particularly competitive markets this will help keep the competition outside of the top 4 listings.

However, the presence of affiliates here needs to be tightly controlled in terms of Creative, as well as ensuring they maintain their rankings whilst having the minimum possible impact on the own brand campaign costs. 

If affiliates are generating £20 Car Insurance Sales, are they cannibalising sales which could have been generated for half the cost on the PPC brand campaign? Robbing Peter to Pay Paul - and give him a Tip!

If this is the case, does this limit the ability of the PPC campaign to actively push on generic terms, because fewer brand conversions at a lower cost will reduce the ability to leverage a strong generic presence on the main terms!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi all, </p>
<p>Further to this, i agree with the principle of brand protection in this instance, as in particularly competitive markets this will help keep the competition outside of the top 4 listings.</p>
<p>However, the presence of affiliates here needs to be tightly controlled in terms of Creative, as well as ensuring they maintain their rankings whilst having the minimum possible impact on the own brand campaign costs. </p>
<p>If affiliates are generating £20 Car Insurance Sales, are they cannibalising sales which could have been generated for half the cost on the PPC brand campaign? Robbing Peter to Pay Paul &#8211; and give him a Tip!</p>
<p>If this is the case, does this limit the ability of the PPC campaign to actively push on generic terms, because fewer brand conversions at a lower cost will reduce the ability to leverage a strong generic presence on the main terms!</p>
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		<title>By: Digital Lookout</title>
		<link>http://www.ppcblog.co.uk/affiliate-advertising/should-you-allow-closed-group-affiliate-brand-bidding/comment-page-1/#comment-83679</link>
		<dc:creator>Digital Lookout</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 22:57:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ppcblog.co.uk/?p=308#comment-83679</guid>
		<description>The closed group bidding strategy has become more of a viable option since the removal of trademark protection on google, after all, much better to have affiliates there than competitors!  I agree on the monitoring though, too many people going about it the wrong way or turning a blind eye.  If I was a client side marketer Id be more tempted to try and cover my brand terms with product specific sites and ads where possible or potentially set up some sub brands to take over the space for me, that way, you are still getting the traffic and only paying face value!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The closed group bidding strategy has become more of a viable option since the removal of trademark protection on google, after all, much better to have affiliates there than competitors!  I agree on the monitoring though, too many people going about it the wrong way or turning a blind eye.  If I was a client side marketer Id be more tempted to try and cover my brand terms with product specific sites and ads where possible or potentially set up some sub brands to take over the space for me, that way, you are still getting the traffic and only paying face value!</p>
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		<title>By: PPCblogger</title>
		<link>http://www.ppcblog.co.uk/affiliate-advertising/should-you-allow-closed-group-affiliate-brand-bidding/comment-page-1/#comment-83124</link>
		<dc:creator>PPCblogger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 18:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ppcblog.co.uk/?p=308#comment-83124</guid>
		<description>Good points and I agree with the Time Warner Cable example -

I can see their own advert or at least display url (which doesn&#039;t look to be an affiliate), three affiliate adverts and only a single competitor.

They are ranking at the top naturally and have their own PPC advert. For me, that&#039;s enough brand protection considering they have just one competitor ad. They will be paying affiliates commissions where it&#039;s really not neccessary and are actually directly forcing up their own bids. It looks very messy as well.

There are equally as many examples over in the UK to!.

Thanks for the comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points and I agree with the Time Warner Cable example -</p>
<p>I can see their own advert or at least display url (which doesn&#8217;t look to be an affiliate), three affiliate adverts and only a single competitor.</p>
<p>They are ranking at the top naturally and have their own PPC advert. For me, that&#8217;s enough brand protection considering they have just one competitor ad. They will be paying affiliates commissions where it&#8217;s really not neccessary and are actually directly forcing up their own bids. It looks very messy as well.</p>
<p>There are equally as many examples over in the UK to!.</p>
<p>Thanks for the comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrey</title>
		<link>http://www.ppcblog.co.uk/affiliate-advertising/should-you-allow-closed-group-affiliate-brand-bidding/comment-page-1/#comment-83121</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 17:55:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ppcblog.co.uk/?p=308#comment-83121</guid>
		<description>I must have been reading to quickly since I didn&#039;t notice the &quot;brand protection&quot; part, but I guess I agree with your post even more now. :)

I was originally thinking about this through a competitive viewpoint where a business would have to take into account a lot more data such as lifetime value of a customer for instance to see if it makes financial sense to do so.

You make a valid point about the payout.  A different payout structure would probably make the most sense, still giving your affiliates an attractive rate for them helping keep the competition away from potential customers and for taking on some added risk from increased marketing costs.  The rate would also have to be high enough to cover the increased CPC costs an affiliate would have to pay to show up since their CTR and QS would be lower.  The brand keywords should still convert better than non-brand terms, but probably not as high as if they were the official site.  

One of those large brands that&#039;s allowing them to bid (in the states) looks like Time Warner Cable. If you&#039;re unfamiliar with the brand they provide cable tv, internet and phone service.  They were showing up #3 when I searched along side 6-7 other affiliates.  Maybe they&#039;re just proactively being defensive, but more than likely, they&#039;re just acting like many other inefficient utility type of companies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must have been reading to quickly since I didn&#8217;t notice the &#8220;brand protection&#8221; part, but I guess I agree with your post even more now. :)</p>
<p>I was originally thinking about this through a competitive viewpoint where a business would have to take into account a lot more data such as lifetime value of a customer for instance to see if it makes financial sense to do so.</p>
<p>You make a valid point about the payout.  A different payout structure would probably make the most sense, still giving your affiliates an attractive rate for them helping keep the competition away from potential customers and for taking on some added risk from increased marketing costs.  The rate would also have to be high enough to cover the increased CPC costs an affiliate would have to pay to show up since their CTR and QS would be lower.  The brand keywords should still convert better than non-brand terms, but probably not as high as if they were the official site.  </p>
<p>One of those large brands that&#8217;s allowing them to bid (in the states) looks like Time Warner Cable. If you&#8217;re unfamiliar with the brand they provide cable tv, internet and phone service.  They were showing up #3 when I searched along side 6-7 other affiliates.  Maybe they&#8217;re just proactively being defensive, but more than likely, they&#8217;re just acting like many other inefficient utility type of companies.</p>
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		<title>By: Print Country</title>
		<link>http://www.ppcblog.co.uk/affiliate-advertising/should-you-allow-closed-group-affiliate-brand-bidding/comment-page-1/#comment-83113</link>
		<dc:creator>Print Country</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 17:07:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ppcblog.co.uk/?p=308#comment-83113</guid>
		<description>I agree with the above piece. I think under no circumstance affiliate brand bidding will be positive. I don&#039;t buy the argument that a closed group bidding will enable the affiliates to bid more on other terms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the above piece. I think under no circumstance affiliate brand bidding will be positive. I don&#8217;t buy the argument that a closed group bidding will enable the affiliates to bid more on other terms.</p>
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		<title>By: PPCblogger</title>
		<link>http://www.ppcblog.co.uk/affiliate-advertising/should-you-allow-closed-group-affiliate-brand-bidding/comment-page-1/#comment-83108</link>
		<dc:creator>PPCblogger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 16:37:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ppcblog.co.uk/?p=308#comment-83108</guid>
		<description>Hi Andrey,

Nice piece and thanks for the Sphinn.

Actually in my above post, I did mention there is a stronger argument for allowing some affiliates to bid against your brand if there is a lot of competition.

But actually the higher CPC markets where there is most competition against brands is also the market which pays the highest affiliate commissions. Why should an insurance company pay £20 to an affiliate bidding against their brand? I think at least the commission agreement would have to be lowered substantially for the brand referrals. Even then I would argue that a lot of the time group brand bidding would not make sense, just create more noise and cost. 

What I have found scary though is that some very large brands have allowed affiliates to bid against their brand with little to no competition - simply to increase volume from affiliates.

Thanks for the comments and discussion!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Andrey,</p>
<p>Nice piece and thanks for the Sphinn.</p>
<p>Actually in my above post, I did mention there is a stronger argument for allowing some affiliates to bid against your brand if there is a lot of competition.</p>
<p>But actually the higher CPC markets where there is most competition against brands is also the market which pays the highest affiliate commissions. Why should an insurance company pay £20 to an affiliate bidding against their brand? I think at least the commission agreement would have to be lowered substantially for the brand referrals. Even then I would argue that a lot of the time group brand bidding would not make sense, just create more noise and cost. </p>
<p>What I have found scary though is that some very large brands have allowed affiliates to bid against their brand with little to no competition &#8211; simply to increase volume from affiliates.</p>
<p>Thanks for the comments and discussion!</p>
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